July 29, 2008
-
The Value of Education
Sometimes you go along and think, "Why did I get this wonderful education? What good is it really doing me?" Then you have an experience that helps you understand just how useful a thing education is.
A Facebook friend of mine - who also happens to be something of a friend in real life - posted this on his Facebook today: "__________ (name elided to protect the innocent) is still trying to figure out how we
wound up with free education - a good thing, mind you - but without
free healthcare in this country."Being as educated as I am, it didn't take me long to come up with a response. "What's the matter with you, __________?" I said. "Isn't it patently obvious? Free tax-supported universal
mandatory public education is an essential part of democracy. Free
tax-supported universal health care, on the other hand, while not
mandatory, smacks of godless socialism!NOW is it clear to you? Whew! One would think you had learned NOTHING from your own public education!"
I always feel much better when I'm able to enlighten a fellow human being.
Comments (27)
Hm. Yeah, makes sense. Socialized education, police, and fire departments are just a normal part of any good democracy... but socialized health care is Communist!
You would be surprised how many people who comment on my site that actually think the public school system is socialistic.
@TheTheologiansCafe - It IS socialistic. But all socialism is not a bad thing. People confuse socialism with communism. Socialism is merely the acknowledgment that there are certain basic things that are so elemental and vital to the society as a whole that ALL citizens, no matter what their socioeconomic status, are entitled to them as a fundamental human right.
Even aside from the financial benefits of a good education, I would never want to go back to the way I thought before I got the degrees! The truth is that I could go get almost free health care right now if I wanted to at the county clinic. The care wouldn't be great and the time it would take to get seen and taken care of would be rediculous - but it is there if I really need it.
And don't be too upset when your kid "graduates" from the "free" "education" system unable to read, add or think logically. That's what college is for, after all.
all right, I've got to throw in my 2 cents.....in Mexico, we have socialized health care. there are government clinics in every village. as part of medical school, when a person graduates they are required to give a year to the government before they can obtain the diploma. the government decides where they are needed and hence these government clinics are staffed. they change doctors and nurses periodically, once a year. and these clinics are free to anyone who walks in the door. the doctors and nurses don't even look at this as a bad thing, even though they are not paid for that year. it's just the way it's just the way it's done. medicines and materials are provided by the government, and yes, for certain things, non emergency surgeries and stuff like that may take time, but the care provided is definitely worth the trip to the clinic.
@blonde_apocalypse - I graduated from the public school system, my dear, and I would have absolutely no fear of my daughter emerging as a functional illiterate from a tax-supported institution. The government can make the resources available through taxation, but education is ultimately the responsibility of the individual and his/her family.
That's that BALANCE between government assistance and individual responsibility that I keep harping about. Unfortunately we've erred in the past 30 years so far in the direction of individual responsibility that I emphasize the failure of government to accept its share of the responsibility. If the situation were reversed, then I'd have to talk about individual responsibility.
Well stated. I have a few thoughts on individual responsibility too; don't know if i want to go there in public.
The problem about parental responsibility in education is that we've gone round the bend. Most parents these days seem to be far more concerned about whether "Johnny" or "Jill" gets a place on the little league team or the soccer team, than if they can't string words together to form a sentence or to do something simple like making change.
I know I went to public school a long, long time ago, but I cannot imagine my parents putting up with it were I to get a low grade in English, but was the star soccer player. We had a rule at our school that in order to participate in ANY extra curricular activity OR sports teams, you had to maintain a high C average. In terms of numbers that was a 2.8 or better. You didn't want to study? Fine. You didn't play. And it worked well. Now, it has become patently obvious that the parents can't be trusted to make sure their children spend time on something mundane like learning to read and spell, so it is time for our socialistic school systems to take control once again. Sorry for the rant. I have very few "hot button" topics that I react poorly towards - apparently the posters on Xanga lately are hitting all of them.
well,,, being fairly well educated myself,,, hahahahahahaha,,, can you believe that??? well,, im not a dr,, or a lawyer,,, i did however attend schools for the better part of my life,,,up till my 50s anyway,,, i attended a couple every year,,,,
the school system is fixing the educated problem,,, finishing school anymore doesnt necessarily translate into educated,,, weve found,,, as in mexico,,, the populace is easier to control when ignorant,,,, look forward to more of it....
im not sure where these free clinics are hidalgos talking about,,, all i know of have a fee,,, even dif has a fee,,, i dont guess you always have to pay it,,, hahahahahahaha,,, its not much,,, but there are street drs that are cheaper,,,,
i myself prefer dr simi,,, who single handedly,,, and privatly, provides health care just about cheaper than the socialized drs here,,, and there is both kinds here,, socialized,,, which you have to meet criteria to obtain,,, and not all mexicans meet it,,,, you have to be employed in a job that provides it,,, kinda like exxon with its group health insurance,,, to my knowledge tho,, beyond that, it is free as well as the medicines,,, i dont know what the availability of medicines are,,, if they dont have them,,, you of course dont recieve them,,,
the general hospital,,, not socialized,,, the emergency room costs about $13, but the pharmacy will fill any prescription free,,, of course they are careful not to have any of the expensive ones on hand,,, hahahahahahaha
yea,, we have socialized medicine,, i say we,,, i dont qualify for it of course,,, we also have the other kind.... drs arent sued at the drop of a hat here,,, so,,, well,,, you can go to a private dr for about whatever you want to pay,,, ive paid $1.50,,,,, ive paid $50. the $50 one of course was a specialist,,, ive paid $20 for a specialist in the same field as well,,,,,
im wondering what we are asking for when we ask for socialized medicine,,, theres mexicos way,,, i kind of like it,,, then theres billarys way,,,, hahahahahahahahahahahaha
billarys way of course spunt more words on how to fine and imprison you and your dr should you get treated without her permission,,, hahahahahahahahahahaha,,,, you have to admit,,, a plan like that would tend to put socialism in its traditional perspective,,,,evil, and,,, well,, pretty much the direction jr is taking us,,,,, down the road to total lockdown...... enjoy.
enjoy,,, or ,,, theres still the invitations to come vist,,, i did,,, i stayed. and i wasnt even retired at the time,,, that makes it harder,,, retired,,, a piece of cake,,, just dont return home,,, hahahahahahaha
oh,,, hahahahahaha,, i started out talking about continuinig education, and got side tracked,,, i was sitting around here thinking,,, maybe i should scoop up some more schooling here while i was sitting around doing nothing,,,, then i stopped and thought about it,,, the question that kept popping up in my mind was,,,, why? am i gonna be seeking employment? hahahahahahaha,,,, i deleted the silly idea from my mind at that point.
@Weareloved - uh,,,, i beg to differ,,, all kids play,,, they play in society,,, they will play outside it if blackballed,,,,
i went to school a long time ago,,, you were encouraged to pass,,, regardless,,, you were allowed to play in society,,,
do you remember when the gang problems emerged in the us? it wasnt always there you know,,, you may not know,,, i myself remember,,, i remember when it began,,, i remember when city by city it grew out of control,,,
hahahahahahaha,,, and we still havent figured it out....
no pass, no play,,, the stupidest law ever enacted,,,,,
kids will play,,, you will not stop them,,,, ever.
ps,,, in my own case,,, i passed,,, hahahahahaha,,, team sports never interested me,,, i had my own games,,,not school related,,, my opinion (knowledge) in no way is derived from good or bad experiences while in school.....
@Eccentrique - Yep yep. Personal responsibility. I'm all for that. I don't observe that children in a "free" "education" system actually have "the resources available through taxation" when they are in a room with 35 other kids, and the teacher spends 90% of his/her time dealing with discipline problems and interminable, pointless bean counting. (Unless by "resources" you mean lights, chairs and walls) Listen to the conversation of public school teachers. Their number one complaint: Teachers in the "free" "education" system don't get to "educate" much. Mostly they serve as wardens until they can pass their wards off to the next government institution.
@blonde_apocalypse - I'm curious whose fault you think it is that our public education system has flaws. I can see that you and I aren't going to get anywhere as usual. Our entire society has changed since I went to public school, and not for the better. I don't see where that change, lamentable as it is, has eliminated our government's duty to carry out its constitutional imperatives.
@Eccentrique - Well, as usual, you already know where I think the problem is. But, in the end, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, what matters is that what we got ain't working, we KNOW it ain't working and yet we keep doing the same things over and over, just more versions of the same thing, and we're doing them more vigorously now.
It doesn't help and it's driving the decent, capable, overworked teachers into other fields but at least we feel like we tried.
Doing the same things and expecting different results.
I can only speak and act for me and mine, and my solution has been to dump many tens of thousands of dollars into the black hole of a "free" "education" system and then pay many more thousands of dollars for a private education for my own child. I can't control that the neighbor's kids can't string three words together to make a coherent sentence, can't make change and have no identifiable wage-earning skills. I got all I can handle and then some (and there are many days I know I can't even adequately handle) earning a living, paying my taxes, running a household, raising and educating my own kid entirely on my own.
I go back and forth on this issue. Obviously I agree that healthcare should be accessible and affordable for all people, but I'm not sure that universal healthcare is necessarily the answer. There is something to the idea that competition amongst medical professionals, researchers and institutions facilitates a greater degree of competency and a higher level of expertise and care than would a system in which all were "equal," so to speak. Some of what I've heard about countries that do have universal healthcare seem to point to the fact that though everyone has equal access to the health care system, this system is inferior to some of those countries who's healthcare system is not universal. As with all things in life I have to think that there must be something in between what we have now and what we are familiar with as universal health care. I think that to strive for a happy medium may be the best solution, though I don't pretend to know enough about this issue (though I know a good bit) to pretend that I know what that medium might be.
@writers_blck - You have a point about competition. I live in a state where competition, when speaking of medical care, is nil. That's right - NIL. The state made a law some years ago that ALL health insurers in the state MUST insure ALL applicants. That means they can't turn anyone away, and they can't charge them more. An AIDS patient will pay the same as someone who is healthy as...well healthy. That means we're ALL paying huge sums for basically the same coverage, regardless of where we go to get it (only three companies will write med insurance in the state).
In England, you have the public hospitals which are state-funded, and you have private hospitals and doctors. You can choose which to go to. If you choose to go to a private hospital, the English medical system pays the same amount to the private institution as they would pay for your care in the public, funded, hospital. I'd love to see a system in the states where every person pays the same amount of money, either by check each month, or as a payroll deduction into a health care slush fund, from which your medical bills are paid.
The average deduction in Britain is around $450 as best as I can tell, paid as a payroll deduction, per month. Our insurance, for the two of us, runs $987 a month, and covers far less than a typical British two-person family.
@blonde_apocalypse - "what matters is that what we got ain't working, we KNOW it ain't working and yet we keep doing the same things over and over". And that same sentence can be used to describe the automotive industry and the health care industry, as well as education
@mejicojohn - I think you might have missed my point. A school system is NOT there for the kids to play. A school system, regardless of whether we are talking primary, secondary, or university-level, is there to EDUCATE. When the "playing" gets in the way of making sure your child is prepared to face this ever-changing world, then the parents and the school system have equal responsibility to recognize that it is BROKEN and needs to be fixed.
There ARE students who can maintain a good grade average, learn their subjects, AND play. But there are far more who can't, unless they receive both educational and parental support.
As you might be able to tell, this is a sore subject with me. For years and years, I had to take young people, who were graduates of the public school system and actually train them and supervise them in an office setting. I still do that now, apparently, when we hire temps to help us. One good example, which happened not too long ago, was when a temp had no clue how to recognize the symbols for different currency, even with a "cheat sheet". She had NO CLUE that the Euro was any different than the US dollar or the Japanese Yen (and she did NOT know how to read on top of all of that). She screwed an investment journal up so badly that I was ready to throw her out the window after 2 hours. She had graduated from a local high school having taken a business course. She was also the head cheerleader. Enough said.
@Weareloved - Delighted to see you back, We.
You certainly have plenty worthwhile to say on this topic!
Almost all the homeschoolers that I know have graduated from college at the top of their classes,most of them played soccer ,almost all of them played instruments.I know not everyone is able to teach their kids at home but I think it comes down to a parent to make sure their kid gets the most out of their education whatever way they choose to educate their child. My parents had almost no interaction with our education at all,unless it was to kick our ass if we got below a C.
@seedsower - Hmmm, sounds like my parents, just a little. lol A friend of mine was homeschooled throughout what is now called Middle and High School. She ended up going to Gannon in Erie, PA. Magna Cum Laude. Now holds a PhD in Applied Mathematics.
@Eccentrique - I don't know if its worthwhile or not,
, but one of my pet peeves is that a ton of money goes into the system, but the equivalent in education isn't coming out. And as far as health care, I just spent the last two months studying Great Britain's system, with all of its flaws, since "socialized" medicine is such a polarizing subject in this country. Hopefully you'll see a bit more of me for a little while, until we are balls to the wall with work again.
I went to a public school.
10% of my graduating class went to U of M. Others went to Boston College, Yale, Harvard, West Point, Northwestern, Berkley, Rice, Princeton, Dartmouth, etc. All but 2 graduated from high school, and out of everyone 4 people were the only ones not enrolled in college for the fall.
My public school had a 30 million dollar performing arts center, a two 10 million dollar fields, over 100 state championships for sports, etc.
Public school can only really work out well when parents are willing to voluntarily raise their taxes to fix structural problems in the school/provide grants for teacher's projects.
My class sizes were about 24 in bigger classes and about 20 in smaller ones.
(American Pie is based on my highschool)
@attercop - Thanks for your comment. You plainly went to a public school in an affluent community. Until we revise the way we finance public education, away from property taxes and toward a more equitable system, not every student will have the resources you had at your disposal. It's not always about parents being "willing" to "voluntarily" raise their taxes. In many poorer communities the money is simply not there.
@Eccentrique - See, you just hit on part of the problem, at least in some states. In Pennsylvania, your tax bill reflects two types of taxes. Only one is property tax, the other is a school tax. They are billed separately, based on the budget in your school system. Up here in backwards Vermont, they have tried the "Robin Hood" method of public school funding, forcing the more affluent areas to pay higher taxes in order to fund the less affluent area's schools. They're getting away from that now, having had it backfire in their faces. Attercop is right - parents must get involved from their tax bill all the way up to what their kids are learning. Actively involved.
@Weareloved - I guess we can agree that the more levels parents are involved at in terms of their children's education, the better. But if education is based on ability to pay, the affluent are (almost) always going to be better educated than the poor, and we will continue to have what is essentially a caste system.
In whose faces did the "Robin Hood" method of school funding backfire, and precisely how did it backfire?
@Eccentrique - it backfired, initially, in the faces of the residents, sadly. I'll give you an example - the people in Stowe, Vermont always had higher taxes. Stowe is an incredibly "upscale" little village that turns into a zoo in the winter because of Stowe Mountain (aka Mount Mansfield). When Act 60 was enacted, these folks saw their tax bills rise by 5-10% per year over the course of the first few years. And their response? A lot of them closed their businesses within Stowe village and moved elsewhere. Folks who owned homes there, moved. And they're still moving (if you check the real estate-for-sale section of our local paper, you see a large number of homes for sale in Stowe, as compared to Cambridge, where we live-and we're about 30 miles from Stowe). You see Act 60 sounded great on the surface, but you cannot rob from Peter to pay Paul, it just doesn't work anywhere.
When the difference in taxes (on a home valued the same) was somewhere around $4000 a year if you moved 20 miles down the road, you can see why people chose to move, rather than pay the taxes. Down the road 20 miles was a "poor" school district, the taxes were lower, the schools not funded as well. With the Act, the school was better funded, but the state is now collecting heaven only knows how much less in property taxes.
An even better example would be John and I. We lived in a nice townhome in Essex Junction, Vermont (far better known as the home of IBM, where the town has given IBM so many tax breaks over the years on the backs of the homeowners that the taxes have become horrible). Our tax bill each year was around $3200. Our condo wasn't that large. Two bedroom, 1-1/2 bath, detached single car garage. The town of Essex Junction began to complain that they didn't have enough money coming in, so they set out to approve a group of apartment buildings, I guess thinking, illogically in my mind, that the owners of said apartment buildings would be paying a lot of taxes. One of those buildings was set to be built on the vacant lot next to our condos. We fought it, and forced the developer to change the design so it was less intrusive (trust me, the details are long and boring). But in the meantime, Essex Junction did two things which ticked us off. First, they granted the apartment developer "credits" against his tax bill that would amount to about $60,000 over 3 years. Second, they raised everyone else's tax rate. That put our next tax bill in the neighborhood of $3750 (with another rate increase pending the following year). We started looking to move elsewhere, and paid careful attention to not only the tax rate, but also how much home we were going to have for the money.
We bought in Cambridge, Vermont. We now have 3000 square feet on 20 acres (which is a little less than 3 times the size of our condo, which was around 1100 sq. ft.), and our initial tax bill was $2900. Thanks to a re-evaluation last year (they finally discovered we have a large home, lol), it is now up to $3700. But, see the disparity? The tax rate is about 25% to 35% less than the surrounding "upscale" towns, and we have just the same benefits as they do (and some of the children, depending upon which part of Cambridge they live in - its a large, large area - attend the schools in those "upscale" areas). Plus we have parents in this area who are uber-involved with their children's education, sometimes to the point where their fund-raising is going to kill me, lol.
I'm not sure, unless you active "live" this scenario, you can completely understand it. Yes, parents and residents have to fund the schools. Yes, there will always be property taxes (and we understand this). But the disparities should be based on the property itself, NOT where it is located, especially in a rather sparsely-populated, small state as Vermont.
Comments are closed.